Curse

**cosyfiep** · Jun 06, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

"Change" will not come about because a candidate says "Vote for change."

The current bureaucracy in Washington is too firmly entrenched. Either Obama knows that and is playing the voters for fools or he is as dumb as a Bush. (I think the latter may be true after hearing some comments Obama has made ...... 57 states?)

it wasnt 57 states it was 54 primaries caucus... (and he was right they have them in pueto rico and american samoa etc....so there were more than there are states----there are a bunch of territories that are not states...).....

MMSDome · Jun 06, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

He doesn't know how to run the country, he knows how to run a state. Just because Obama hasn't been playing in major politics doesn't really mean he isn't experienced. I view his "inexperience" as almost a good thing; it means he very well may be less corrupt and even less corruptible. I am not a blind Obama supporter either; I have read articles, read his website, read John McCain's site and looked at both of their views is a bipartisan way. Up until this election, I tended to lean more Republican. I voted for Bush... and like many regret doing so. He lied to us, point blank, and he still won't admit it. Bush is an idiot, and is basically Cheney's puppet. Cheney = spawn of Satan?

First off answer how Bush is an idiot and he is Cheney's puppet AND how he lied to us. I always enjoy seeing answers to this question as they never prove anything.

Did Obama run a state? No he did not. Running a state is executive experience. This gives him more knowledge on how to run a country then it does Obama. Obama doesnt have the knowledge to run the country like McCain does because he has never done anything remotely close to it.

Cosy he wasnt referring to territories he was referring to the US States, there are 50 of them. It was probably just a simple slip up of words so you dont need to go and try and spin what he was saying and save him. I find it funny that the 57 state deal didnt get a lot of media attention because if it was a Republican (ex. Bush) it would have been plastered all over the news and we would never have heard the end of it.

lakatz · Jun 06, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

it wasnt 57 states it was 54 primaries caucus... (and he was right they have them in pueto rico and american samoa etc....so there were more than there are states----there are a bunch of territories that are not states...).....

He said he'd been in 57 states... before he went to Puerto Rico... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

I suspect though he meant 47 because after saying he'd been in 57 states, he pointed out he didn't go to Alaska and Hawaii and had one state left to go.

**cosyfiep** · Jun 06, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

ah I guess I was referring to a different speech then.....I must have missed the 57 state one (however, its funny since I did the EXACT same thing when I was telling people back when I was in school how many states I had been to---but the number was 52 since I had missed 8 states----so I know how it can be done---even funnier was the only person who caught my misspeech was my teacher and none of the others I was talking with at the time...)....

back to the topic ---

EmptySkull · Jun 06, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Actually, Obama's healthcare plan is quite genius when it comes to funding it, as was Hillary's.

Ok I've read through your quote from Mr. Obama's Website 3 times now. I don't see any mention how it will be paid for. What is this genius way to pay for it?
I'll go ahead and say it. I'm sure they are gonna tax somebody. Big Bad corporation, or Mr Evil Rich man. But no matter who you tax the the cost will filter it's way back down to you. While we may be able to provide health care to everyone in the beginning. The quality couldn't be maintain for very long.

Medicare will be broke in about 15 years. The trust fund will dry up. With projected general funds will can pay about 80% of the mandatory cost. Yeah let's throw more mandatory expenditures on top of that.

O by the way. Its funny you mention MR. I am a MR Technologist. Let me explain some things about MR to make a point about Government controlled health care. First MR scanners, brand new cost about 1.75 million to 2.5 millions dollars, depending on options. A hospital or imaging clinic will borrow the money to buy one. Depending on numerous factors they will pay it off in 5-7 years. Add in interest and this comes out to about a 40,000 dollars a month payment for the scanner.

The best imaging machines use a powerful superconducting magnet. That burns through liquid helium every day. This requires a refill of helium every 50-70 days. To maintain the service to fill that helium cost about 80,000 dollars a year or about 6,000 dollars a month.

You must have a service contract in case something breaks. And stuff breaks trust me. So a service contract cost for one year cost average 600,000 dollars a year. Or 50,000 dollars a month.

So without even considering staffing and other overhead(electricity, injection supplies, etc etc) you have got to pay out 96,000 dollars a month regardless of how many patients you scan.

It takes about an hour to scan one patient. From patient walking into door, screening, changing clothes, instructions , scanning, getting patient off the table. Patient putting clothes back on, etc etc. So If I run a 8 hour shift a day. 5 days a week I can scan 160 patients a month.

So not including staffing cost or other operational overhead it cost me about 600.00 dollars a patient to provide MR service.

"Woah, why did it cost me 3000+ for that MR scan I had?" I suppose you're asking right now. I will tell you why. The government + indigent care. See if a patient has Medicare or Medicaid, the government has decided that it will only pay 150 dollars for that MR. So I lose 350.00 dollars to scan that patient. An indigent care is a total loss of 600.00 dollars. I have to make it up somehow. If you don't make you car payment what happens? So I have to charge high enough for each exam to spread out the cost to all my paying customers. And we haven't even thrown in the fact that we have staffing to pay. Other operational overhead is not included in these cost figures either.

My point is to provide the services we have in the medical field there are operational cost associated with every service. These operational cost cannot be controlled by the government.
Let's speculate that universal health care would work if implemented January 2009. But government funding can not keep pace with everyday expenditure rise. It may be small at first. But eventually it would be snowballed to the same situation we are in right now with Medicare. And with the baby boomer's enter retiring age, the strain on the system is gonna break it(Medicare) or the government or even both.

I believe the government should influence things. But not take over. It just isn't efficient enough to run it.

Winterclaw · Jun 06, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Obama (who whether you like him or not is a great orator)?

Obama is only a good speaker when he has a telepromter to read from. I expect him to get creamed in the debates.

As for the campaign in general, we have a facist/marxist going up against a somewhat socialist republican. Not a good lot to choose from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

The current bureaucracy in Washington is too firmly entrenched. Either Obama knows that and is playing the voters for fools or he is as dumb as a Bush.

Actually, running on a vague issue of "change" is something facists have historically run on (Mussolini had change as a campaign issue). It works as a political ploy because there are people in the ignorant masses who dislike the current situation and assume your vague promise is the kind of changes they are looking for.

Anyways, I don't like Obama because first he tried to keep the FL democrats votes from counting, then he "compromised" by making them count less than the slaves did in the US constitution. However, unlike the founding fathers he wasn't reducing group to limit slavery but to further his own personal agenda and ambitions. So a florida democratic voter counts less than a slave? That's great enfranchisement.

**cosyfiep** · Jun 06, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

uhm...obama really had no say as to how the florida ones would count.

and they (florida and michigan) were the ones who went against the party and held their primary BEFORE they were supposed to have and were aware of the consequences but did it anyways. Now we just want to say 'oh you guys went against the party rules but we ARENT going to punish you'? what kind of president does that set for the next time around???? ALL of the states will have their primaries whenever they wish and KNOW there is no consequence??????? I think that is known as anarchy...or chaos...the party set rules (stupid as they may be) and the states AGREED to them!
Kids do this all the time....mom says dont do that or we will ground you...kid does it anyways...what should the parent do?? "oh we didnt mean it, go ahead and disobey us anytime"....what kind of message is that????

ugh.

Lord Sojar · Jun 06, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Indeed. And the DNC board decided Florida and Michigan's fate, independent of BOTH candidates. If you had actually watched the DNC board deciding that, the members of the board voted on the matter. Obama had nothing to do with that decision.

Well, I hope Obama fixes the election and manipulates and cheats the voting system just like Bush did against Gore.

As for Bush lying? WMDs... chemical weapons... need I go on? State of the Union? Fear mongering? Cheney is his puppeteer. Have you taken a good look at Cheney? I swear if they adjusted the camera just a few more degrees and zoomed in on his eyes, they would glow red with pentagrams inscribed in the back of his retinas. They guy is seriously a creep and just has this evil look to him; not to mention all his ties to lobbyists and corrupt money. Tsk tsk. Bush is an idiot. The guy doesn't know how to use the English language properly, he can't write a budget for his life, and he wouldn't have been able to do anything had it not been for the rest of his corrupt administration. If you actually think Bush did a good job, you are part of the 25% of Americans who actually believes that. If you even remotely like Bush, you are of the tiny 30% that does. If you think he isn't corrupt, crooked, and just plain stupid, you are in the minority.

McCain is a far better man than Bush. If McCain is elected, I will be disappointed, but I won't be hysterical. McCain is at least level headed and intelligent, something the Bush family isn't. As it is already unfolding, it looks like Obama and McCain are going to run a great general election, and we might actually see questions answered rather than negative ads and petty insults with crap that doesn't mean a thing (I don't give a flying crap if McCain's wife has had plastic surgery or if Obama happened to know Reverend Wright, that doesn't make a shit bit of difference what type of President they will make.)

I want to see some amazing debates. Obama has my vote, but I still want McCain to muster a great fight against him, so he can at least prove to me he isn't the 3rd term of Bush, and he will actually get our country out of this ditch. He has to prove it to ME, not anyone else. I am the most important person in the USA the way I see it, and you should feel the same about yourself. The candidates have to prove it to YOU, not your sister, not your wife, not your best friend, to YOU. End of story. Arguing petty politics is so insane.

McCain has his flaws, Obama has his. I personally believe the ideas Obama has and his plans are more sound and in line with today's issues than McCains policies and plans are. Obama is addressing the most pressing issues of our time, and meeting them head on. I currently feel McCain is brushing several of them under the carpet, to be dealt with later by another President. That is the Republican mentality; the issue can be dealt with NEXT TERM or that the government shouldn't have a role in this or that.

To all of you discussing budgets.... guess how many years of medical insurance the government could provide using the money we have spent on good old Iraq? It's ok, I don't want to have you shit yourselves right now... but if you think putting government spending into programs that benefit us here at home is bad, what do you call supporting a stupid country in the middle of the desert who have been content living like nomads for the last 3,000 years is? Smart? Oh please, don't flatter yourselves. Iraq was the dumbest thing the US has ever done, hands down. We have spent so much money on that useless hole in the ground, poor excuse for a country for what? We got nothing out of it, except negative press, a bad global image, and a recession. I hate Iraq, and personally hope that Iran nukes them first chance they get. Erase that pathetic excuse for a country off the map. It would wipe out all the Muslims in that area; after all... they are all "terrorists"... now if you pardon me, I am off the read a passage from the beautiful book known as the Qur'an so I can broaden my horizons and plan my next devious plot... what a bunch of crap. Hate mongering and teaching Americans that Muslims are terrorists was just downright evil. Shame on the Bush administration.

MMSDome · Jun 06, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

If VX Gas and Mustard Gas isnt a WMD then I dont know what is:

http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html

I am still waiting for a reason why you think Bush is dumb...

The Bush family had no way of rigging the election so your claim is groundless.

Regarding the Michigan and Flordia Primary's starting to soon... You really think you should penalize voters because their state went to quick in a close election that they just had? If Hillary had got Michigan and Florida she would have had the popular vote by more then 100k votes and I know how much you Democrats love popular vote. Obama expressed how he didnt want the two states to count so even if the DNC made the final say you know where Obama stood, he didnt want American votes to count. Defend Obama on that case all you want but he didnt want fellow American votes to count because he would have lost the popular vote and that would have made a greater case for Hillary to be elected.

O please quit bitching about money put in to Iraq. How about the billions of dollars going into programs for illegal immigrants. Billions upon billions are being spent towards people that arent even US citizens and all you moan and groan about is the war. Grow up.

Dumbest thing we have done was Iraq? ROFL excuse me but saving innocent lives is a good thing in my book but you can go on thinking that. The dumbest war we have entered was Vietnam which if I may add we were under a Democratic president when we entered.

Lasareth · Jun 06, 2008, 06:45 AM // 06:45

...aand that's the end of this thread. Was interesting while it lasted.